DIsabled Lit/Shadeless/MatLab on most models

(Vlad) #1

Right now i have problem to change rendering mode on most models on Free and Pro accounts.

Is this just a bug, or new feature?

(Vlad) #2

Ok. I find the problem
"Removes unnecessary render options from viewer (i.e. no Lit/Matcap when shadeless)"

I think this is not correct.

If user setup model in Shadeless, model topology (Matcap) view mode still required.
May be if user upload model for Matcap mode only, other like Lit or Shadeless is not needed.

Also if user set Shadeless sometime switch to Lit mode give interesting results. But may be in this case Lit mode is not needed.
The same with Lit, probably Shadeless is not needed, but sometime this allow watch model in Shadeless when it looks better especially if this is Scan with shadow information in textures.

Please. May be you can create another type of account - SuperPRO, that allow disable ALL this limitation like weird DOF, wrong ColorCorrection, all posteffects, etc? I'll pay for such account. :slight_smile:

(Stephomi) #3

We still allow the user to switch on shadeless and matcap if the model is set on lit.

For many models, switching from matcap/shadeless to lit ended up with a fully black models.
The reason is that on top of choosing shadeless/matcap, the artist often disable the lights in the editor.
In the end it led to a poorly experience (ugh? "the model is all black, this option sucks").

That being said, the current matcap/shadeless/lit solution is a temporary one.
We plan on working on a "model inspector" feature where more option would be available (topoloy, different map effects, uv(?), rigging(?), etc..).
We don't know yet what we'll allow to display, but it will probably be driven by the artist somehow in the editor (maybe even removing the option for wireframe, etc...).

(Vlad) #4

Matcap mode will never show pure black or pure white. Only if user overplay with ColorCorrections and Toning.

But you disable switch from Shadeless to Matcap!

And as i wrote before. If artist too paranoid, him should use YouTuble for completely disable users control because if user need him can grab all maps from model in SketchFab without any problems, user can grab 3D data with some brain or google search.
Such paranoic artsts should use still, because photogrammetry can grab 3D data from video too!

(Vlad) #5

But i understand, that so many SketchFab user will use such "disable" features.

World Heritage scanners, them do not want listen critique to their works, because them work for free, for pinuts, just for idea and peace around the world!
Rookie 3D artists, because them also do not want listen critique to their works - them too cool for this. Or show their mesh/maps/etc because it so bad comparing to experienced artists.

But all them can pay money...

(Stephomi) #6

Yup, because it also enable us to do a few optimisation, with shadeless normals and tangents are useless so we don't have to download them anymore.
Also, imo, matcap is nice to inspect the normals/topology (with normalmap) at once, but for shadeless (typically hand painted model or scans), the normals aren't even used.

Anyway, the "model inspector" feature will probably solve this issue :slight_smile:.
Also there is a difference between the fear of having its model ripped (we can't do much against it) and the will to display its unwrapped map/uv.
If we add a button to display UV, we know many people will use it, but if we don't add it obvisouly it doesn't mean everyone will try to rip the data off sketchfab.

Currently, we don't know yet the amount of control we'll give to the artist yet, we'll probably do a bit of survey to see what the artists are really sensitive about. (@mauricesvay might know more)

(Vlad) #7

Shadeless is common rendering mode for photo-scanned models. But because not so many users can create perfect scans, sometime only one way to examine model was Matcap mode :frowning:
But now it disabled :frowning2:

May be it possible until you create new observation mode, back Matcap as it work before?

This is second improvement after DOF that give no chance watch photoscanned models.

(Vlad) #8

Please move back Matcap mode for shadeless models!
This is not possible examine models for normals and normal maps only download them to PC :frowning:

(Stephomi) #9

Do you have an example of a model set in shadeless but that still have a normal map. That's definitely an edge case as shadeless doesn't use the normal at all!

(Vlad) #10

I understand that we both do not understand together.

Let me explain my concerns.

What we have:
1) Sketchfab have huge library of 3D scanned or photogrammetry made models.
2) Most models made as hobby.
3) Most models especially photogrammetry, made in not best lighting conditions (in sunny day often).
4) There is many different photogrammetry, laser 3d reconstruction software on market, and most of this software have models on Sketchfab.

Because of 2 and 3 most of textures not possible to use in Lit mode. So user set Shadeless.
Because 1 and 4 many users interesting not only to view scanned models, but also examine mesh topology, Polygon normals (some software generate flipped poly). Examine mesh resolution (i do not talking about total polygon counts but about how photogrammetry or 3D scanner can scan original surfaces.)

For example i have https://sketchfab.com/models/d2221cf367604509ab73807984aa8efc model. This is for tools comparison. But textures is only for reference, them not ready for Lit, but good enough for Shadeless. But now users unable to examine model in Matlab mode, examine topology.

The same with other users models, zBrush or Low poly. Sometime Matlab + wireframe allow understand how this model created.

(Vlad) #11

Any estimate for Matcap like mode view for ALL models (incl Shadeless)?
I love "metal" effect of current Matcap mode, but this can be just 100% diffuse gray, or any other default texture that allowed inspect models.

(Stephomi) #12

No estimate, we are working on the model inspector but it's a pretty big feature.
It might take a while.